| programmerjake | if by this you mean sifive, idk for sure but i think they have some open-source stuff you can use to construct your custom chip, the rest is proprietary, so imho it's a misnomer to call it open. | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| programmerjake | perhaps open in the sense that the isa spec is "open"? | 00:04 |
| tinybronca[m] | <programmerjake> "if by this you mean sifive..." <- Okay I did not know there was any libre stuff from SiFive do they have code uploaded somewhere? | 00:08 |
| programmerjake | iirc that is more of "build a chip and you can add all these curated 3rd-party things" and some of the 3rd-party things are open... | 00:39 |
| programmerjake | i'd guess they'll let you build a chip with a rocket core: https://github.com/chipsalliance/rocket-chip | 00:40 |
| tinybronca[m] | Hmmm ok i read you use noble gases for a laser in an EUV machine? Is there some book that describes how this works haha | 05:27 |
| tinybronca[m] | I found something good written by an IBM Research employee but I do not remember the name or year, just a hardcover solid blue book | 05:27 |
| tinybronca[m] | And ASML machines need lenses from Zeiss?? | 05:30 |
| lkcl | there is rocket-chip | 05:38 |
| lkcl | and boom | 05:38 |
| lkcl | https://github.com/riscv-boom/riscv-boom | 05:40 |
| Veera[m] | lkcl: whether we use regular old ld or gold linker for lsoc? | 05:51 |
| lkcl | Veera[m], not a choice that can be made as "fixed". both have problems | 05:56 |
| tinybronca[m] | 三是，在美西方像制裁俄罗斯一样对中国进行毁灭式制裁的情况下，我们一定要收复台湾，特别是在进行产业链、供应链重构方面，一定要把台积电这本来属于中国的企业抢到中国手里。它们正加快向美国转移，要在美国建立六个厂，我们绝对不能让它转移的目标全部实现。 | 05:57 |
| Veera[m] | lkcl: so only ld | 05:58 |
| lkcl | Veera[m], there will never be a choice to use exclusively one of those. | 05:58 |
| lkcl | no, that decision to only exclusively use one cannot and must not be made. | 05:59 |
| lkcl | *BOTH* are faulty and have serious bugs | 05:59 |
| tinybronca[m] | tinybronca[m]: This is written by 陈文玲中国国际经济交流中心研究员、中心总经济师、执行局副主任 which means Chen Wenling Researcher, Chief Economist, and Deputy Director of the Executive Bureau of the China Center for International Economic Exchanges | 05:59 |
| Veera[m] | lkcl: so while building binutils I shall pass --enable-ld=yes and --enable-gold-yes | 05:59 |
| lkcl | yes, build both, install both. | 06:00 |
| Veera[m] | --enable-ld=yes and --enable-gold=yes | 06:00 |
| Veera[m] | i will build both | 06:00 |
| lkcl | that's really important. | 06:00 |
| Veera[m] | ok. thanks | 06:00 |
| lkcl | https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22831 | 06:01 |
| Veera[m] | lkcl: Shall I use /usrl/local/binutils-gdb as installation prefix/directory or you suggest somewhere else | 06:03 |
| Veera[m] | lkcl: And what about link-time-optimization --enable-lto? | 06:15 |
| tinybronca[m] | https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-services/semiconductor-advisors/310643-duv-euv-now-puv-next-gen-litho-materials-shortages-worsen-supply-chain/ | 06:21 |
| tinybronca[m] | Is this article a lie, is "PUV" really a thing, it says April First at bottom | 06:21 |
| lkcl | Veera[m], there's no need to go through all the options, just keep it simple | 06:24 |
| Veera[m] | oh. | 06:24 |
| lkcl | use as many defaults as possible | 06:25 |
| lkcl | if that turns out to be a problem it can be fixed later | 06:25 |
| lkcl | ghostmansd just used "./configure --target=powerpc64le-linux-gnu" and that was all | 06:26 |
| Veera[m] | oh. some needed thing can be explicitly set. I will run and build. And ghostmansd wants changes I will make changes, amendments. Thanks. | 06:32 |
| programmerjake | yeah, that article appears to be false, just look further down: A new mined source of Unobtainium is from Pandora but will take time to develop, and may require help from Elon Musk as well, for transport. | 06:33 |
| programmerjake | realistically, if you needed xrays for lithography, a good source that can be very bright and monochromatic is a free-electron laser | 06:36 |
| programmerjake | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-electron_laser | 06:36 |
| tinybronca[m] | <programmerjake> "yeah, that article appears to be..." <- Yeah well I did not believe that part...... I am just not educated enough to know if the part about PUV is false | 06:40 |
| programmerjake | that article is false, but somewhat plausible. PUV isn't an actual term afaict, but using shorter wavelengths is something worth trying. the main issues are shorter wavelengths cause higher energy photoelectrons to be produced when they hit the wafer, those higher energy electrons move farther exposing a larger area of the wafer, which makes it harder to achieve really tiny features | 06:44 |
| programmerjake | possible solutions are to instead use something like electrons or protons rather than light, since because they are waay more massive, they have a much shorter wavelength so can in theory produce much smaller features without needing the high energy that causes problems with xrays. | 06:47 |
| programmerjake | also electrons/protons are charged, making it much harder to focus when you're trying to get high intensity | 06:48 |
| programmerjake | hopefully that helped, at least some :) | 06:51 |
| tinybronca[m] | programmerjake: Thank you for your thoughts! | 06:52 |
| programmerjake | :) | 06:52 |
| octavius | has the rfp nlnet email changed since feb? I got an Undelivered Email issue after submitting the RFP | 07:39 |
| lkcl | octavius, sent a message 2 days ago, it was delivered. | 09:53 |
| ghostmansd[m] | Veera[m], I actually didn't need to use either ld or gold in my recent works. I've been mostly dealing with as, so some parts might have been left outside of my vision. | 12:52 |
| ghostmansd[m] | That said, please install both. ld is a canonical one; gold enables stuff like LTO. | 12:52 |
| Veera[m] | Awh, git clone of https://git.libre-soc.org/git/binutils-gdb.git is taking too much time in Talos machine | 15:11 |
| Veera[m] | Is git.libre-soc.org limited in bandwidth and data limit. Is it auto limiting connection!!! | 15:13 |
| Veera[m] | <ghostmansd[m]> "Veera, I actually didn't need to..." <- I have made the script and testing for automated install. | 15:14 |
| Veera[m] | I have enabled both ld.bfd and ld.gold with ld.bfd as default. | 15:15 |
| Veera[m] | Ran newly compiled "powerpc64le-linux-gnu-as --help | less": it shows -mlibresoc as PowerPC options. | 15:17 |
| Veera[m] | <Veera[m]> "Awh, git clone of https://git...." <- err. somehow my inet connection stalled, and I thought git clone is not proceeding. The automated script finished with success! | 15:30 |
| lkcl | i wonder if that is down to transparent / broken HTTP proxies in the way | 16:14 |
| lkcl | oh wait no, git has nothing to do with apt | 16:16 |
| lkcl | https is... not exactly very good in git. | 16:16 |
| lkcl | one thought | 16:22 |
| lkcl | https://linuxhint.com/git-shallow-clone-and-clone-depth/ | 16:22 |
| lkcl | git clone --depth 1 --no-single-branch https://git.libre-soc.org/git/binutils-gdb.git | 16:22 |
| ghostmansd | ah, I shoulda looked here before writing the comments | 17:02 |
| ghostmansd | Veera[m], I've posted some comments and questions at 847 | 17:02 |
| lkcl | git clone https://git.libre-soc.org/git/binutils-gdb.git just worked successfully on talos1 | 18:36 |
| lkcl | but perhaps because i cheated somewhat and upgraded to git version 2.35.1 | 18:36 |
| ghostmansd[m] | It indeed hangs for a while on talos1 | 18:42 |
| ghostmansd[m] | https://libre-soc.org/irclog/%23libre-soc.2022-06-08.log.html#t2022-06-08T18:29:29 | 18:42 |
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