| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 00:07 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 00:33 | |
| *** gnucode <gnucode!~gnucode@user/jab> has quit IRC | 01:49 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 02:26 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 03:05 | |
| *** tplaten <tplaten!~tplaten@195.52.133.24> has quit IRC | 03:20 | |
| *** tplaten <tplaten!~tplaten@62.144.53.205> has joined #libre-soc | 03:34 | |
| *** tplaten <tplaten!~tplaten@62.144.53.205> has quit IRC | 03:51 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 04:26 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 04:53 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 05:11 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 05:45 | |
| ghostmansd[m] | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35137213 | 06:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ghostmansd[m] | TL;DR: GitHub started revoking write access to open source from guys who happen to work in Russian tech companies. | 06:01 |
| programmerjake | well, what I saw in some phoronix comments made me think otherwise (though I didn't check if they were right), apparently that person's employer is sanctioned by the US govt. so GitHub may not have had a choice. GitHub hasn't done anything to many other Russian developers, so I'd guess this is not a GitHub-out-to-get-all-Russians scenario. | 06:04 |
| programmerjake | if that's the case, I'd guess that's the US govt. over-reacting... | 06:07 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 06:15 | |
| sadoon[m] | In any case, host your own git. | 06:19 |
| sadoon[m] | And mirror to convenient services | 06:19 |
| programmerjake | or at least mirror to more than one hosting service | 06:19 |
| sadoon[m] | Yeah | 06:19 |
| sadoon[m] | Preferably not github lmao | 06:19 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 06:47 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 07:39 | |
| programmerjake | for meeting times, note that north america started DST already, europe is starting in a week or so, and australia is ending in two weeks or so. | 08:23 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 09:02 | |
| *** josuah <josuah!~irc@46.23.94.12> has quit IRC | 09:27 | |
| *** josuah <josuah!~irc@46.23.94.12> has joined #libre-soc | 09:29 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 09:50 | |
| lkcl | programmerjake, markos, if you have discussions somewhere please ensure they are cross-referenced into the bugreport. i have no idea what you were talking about and cannot review it | 10:36 |
| lkcl | regardless 4 instructions vs almost 30 is absolutely no contest whatsoever https://bugs.libre-soc.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1015#c6 | 10:36 |
| markos | we had the discussions here, I think programmerjake actually linked to the irc discussion | 10:37 |
| lkcl | no, there is no link in the bugreport. | 10:37 |
| lkcl | the job of the IBM Architects is to allocate opcode space | 10:37 |
| lkcl | if they have 30 instructions to allocate they're going to get pissed off | 10:38 |
| markos | right | 10:38 |
| lkcl | (IBM has the ultimate authority and control *over-and-above* the OpenPOWER Foundation!!) | 10:38 |
| lkcl | this is not generally well-known | 10:38 |
| markos | anyway, as I said to me it meant more consistent with the existing naming scheme, but I do not reject the new scheme | 10:38 |
| markos | s/meant/felt | 10:39 |
| markos | and yes 4 vs 30 is a good argument | 10:39 |
| lkcl | if however we request only 4 instructions (sotto voice: with some extra mode-bits that are elsewhere, not in the XO Field) their job is made vastly simpler and they are less likely to complain | 10:39 |
| markos | what are the chances of them actually proposing the old naming scheme themselves? | 10:40 |
| lkcl | zero | 10:40 |
| markos | ok then | 10:40 |
| lkcl | because IBM as it currently stands is still focussed on VSX | 10:40 |
| lkcl | and they don't really spend that much focus on the Scalar ISA | 10:40 |
| markos | well, I beg to differ there, they seem to have totally dropped the towel on it and don't really give a shit at all about anything, but anyway | 10:41 |
| lkcl | so it's not so much that they wouldn't propose the *naming* scheme, but more that they wouldn't propose these kinds of scalar instructions *at all* | 10:41 |
| markos | understood | 10:41 |
| lkcl | [because VSX equivalents already exist, IBM has VSX, so why would they consider putting redundant instructions in?] | 10:41 |
| markos | because they also consider VSX dead but that's another story | 10:42 |
| lkcl | it's a latency thing. | 10:42 |
| lkcl | yes, the propagation of information is slow, and opinions differ. one of the very interesting facets of massive companies that people forget, there is not "one homogenised IBM/Microsoft/Apple/etc/etc opinion" | 10:43 |
| markos | which is a good thing, but I would really love for a change to see a new fresh opinion, and in practice | 10:44 |
| markos | I really do have high hopes that SVP64 will change things for the platform otherwise Power is going the way of the dodo and will just another system in my retro/vintage collection :) | 10:45 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 10:48 | |
| markos | toshywoshy, btw, OT, I ended up installing gitea from source on a Talos vm, installed without an issue, the snap was full of problems | 10:50 |
| markos | when done I will start importing repos and installing CI and see how it goes, I might ask you a few questions in the process :) | 10:50 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 10:58 | |
| sadoon[m] | <markos> "toshywoshy, btw, OT, I ended..." <- Awesome that you confirmed that, I definitely will use gitea or forgejo on my POWER8 | 10:59 |
| sadoon[m] | I wonder how problematic nextcloud will be though | 11:00 |
| markos | I installed it on debian 12, golang 19 | 11:00 |
| markos | 1.19 | 11:00 |
| sadoon[m] | And I plan to use debian/devuan instead of my current ubuntu setup too | 11:00 |
| sadoon[m] | Ah, a beta tester it seems | 11:00 |
| sadoon[m] | :p | 11:00 |
| sadoon[m] | They froze already though right? | 11:00 |
| markos | only use a couple of ubuntu vms because of a couple of snaps | 11:00 |
| markos | debian you mean | 11:01 |
| sadoon[m] | Might be time for me to start working on sffs deb12 then perhaps | 11:01 |
| sadoon[m] | markos: Yeah | 11:01 |
| sadoon[m] | In fact wasn't the freeze literally this Sunday o_o | 11:01 |
| markos | well it's almost frozen and I always do that, I migrate to testing a little before release | 11:01 |
| markos | and then stick with the released version for a long time | 11:02 |
| * sadoon[m] is tempted to do the same, soon.. | 11:02 | |
| markos | so far no problems on ppc64le at least | 11:02 |
| sadoon[m] | I swear though, if I find no good way to treat debian like a source-based distro I will actually write up a full program to do just that | 11:03 |
| markos | only hardware I'm actually missing right now, surprising as it is, is arm | 11:03 |
| markos | only cloud VMs which suck | 11:03 |
| markos | because I cannot just spin vms as I like, that would cost a ton of money | 11:03 |
| sadoon[m] | I remember in fosdem me and octavius: met a guy who works on open source PCB designs | 11:04 |
| sadoon[m] | He had a 16-core ARM "desktop" | 11:04 |
| markos | sadoon[m], what do you want to do? have an autobuilder for debian packages? | 11:04 |
| sadoon[m] | We got his business card just in case | 11:04 |
| markos | well, there is an ampere workstation, with up to 128cores | 11:05 |
| sadoon[m] | markos: Yes and one that can work similar to portage with no fuss | 11:05 |
| markos | but it's not that fast | 11:05 |
| markos | and it's expensive | 11:05 |
| markos | I was thinking a mac studio | 11:05 |
| markos | but that's also terribly expensive and not upgradeable | 11:05 |
| markos | though it's insanely fast | 11:05 |
| sadoon[m] | And running linux is still alpha stage on those | 11:06 |
| markos | yup | 11:06 |
| markos | so about the autobuilder, do you want to replicate what debian is doing? | 11:06 |
| markos | or just add a few packages in a private repo and autobuild them? | 11:07 |
| sadoon[m] | Only sort of | 11:07 |
| sadoon[m] | What I want is to be able to bootstrap it all from source | 11:07 |
| sadoon[m] | With full dependency resolution | 11:07 |
| markos | if you want the former then you need to replicate the debian infrastructure | 11:07 |
| markos | cbmuser on #debian-ports might be of help | 11:07 |
| markos | he's doing that on a regular basis for multiple non-release architectures | 11:08 |
| sadoon[m] | Huh, definitely know him/her | 11:08 |
| markos | yeah he's basically the maintainer of every port that is non-release | 11:08 |
| sadoon[m] | I remember that handle, I'll have a chat there then | 11:08 |
| sadoon[m] | Later today I guess | 11:08 |
| markos | definitely him, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz | 11:09 |
| sadoon[m] | You can tell I'm tired from work since I referred him/her after reading you say "he" :) | 11:09 |
| markos | he even managed to get m68k support back in | 11:09 |
| sadoon[m] | Awesome | 11:09 |
| markos | and alpha and sparc, etc | 11:09 |
| markos | programmerjake, lkcl just a thought, could there be just the 4 instructions and the other be aliases? that way no additional opcodes are needed | 11:57 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 12:03 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 12:10 | |
| sadoon[m] | We might be in luck | 12:27 |
| sadoon[m] | Apparently apt-build still works? | 12:27 |
| sadoon[m] | It automates repo creation as well | 12:27 |
| markos | nice | 12:32 |
| markos | in the past I used mini-buildd for package building the reprepro for merging own repo with official debian -so that the customer would see a single debian + own overlay repo in their systems | 12:33 |
| markos | s/the reprepro/and reprepro/ | 12:33 |
| sadoon[m] | Only problem is it doesn't do any dependency tree resolution a la emerge | 12:35 |
| markos | that's why I used mini-buildd :) | 12:36 |
| sadoon[m] | For example, it would rebuild packages one by one with the assumption that the dependencies already exist | 12:36 |
| sadoon[m] | markos: But it looks like a pain to set up :( | 12:36 |
| markos | originally tried OBS (Open Build System) by SUSE but that proved way too problematic | 12:36 |
| sadoon[m] | Ugh | 12:36 |
| markos | OBS would enter a loop building the same packages again and again and again | 12:37 |
| markos | sadoon[m], it's not as hard, but I think it's not really maintained anymore | 12:38 |
| sadoon[m] | It isn't afaict | 12:38 |
| sadoon[m] | I looked into it about a year or so ago | 12:38 |
| markos | ah no, it's in Debian even! | 12:38 |
| markos | just got in unstable | 12:38 |
| markos | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/mini-buildd | 12:39 |
| markos | seems quite maintained | 12:39 |
| markos | worth a look | 12:39 |
| sadoon[m] | Yeah worth it | 12:40 |
| sadoon[m] | Nothing to lose really | 12:40 |
| sadoon[m] | Not like we have many options xD | 12:40 |
| lkcl | markos, the aliases were what i suggested 6+ months ago. | 13:24 |
| lkcl | modes-in-a-table creates a standard-RISC-paradigm uniformity | 13:24 |
| markos | so, there is no problem really then? | 13:26 |
| sadoon[m] | Got mini-buildd setup on sid | 13:45 |
| sadoon[m] | This is gonna need a lot of coffee | 13:45 |
| sadoon[m] | Probably wise to utilize the openpower server we have once I've got the hang of this, then things can become much more organized | 13:46 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 14:05 | |
| sadoon[m] | From what I understood so far, it would be better to use debian buster as the mini-buildd server since it has a stable release of it. It's going to build all the packages in a chroot anyways so it doesn't make much of a difference what host os it is | 14:08 |
| markos | yes, there is no need to get the latest unless you need particular features | 14:14 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 14:24 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 14:54 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 15:27 | |
| lkcl | sadoon[m], all the tools that you need *will* be there - it's just that the debian developers do not go out of their way to "promote themselves" if you know what i mean | 15:35 |
| lkcl | many distros go out of their way "look at us! look at us! we're better than any other distro because we have reproducible builds! we're the first evva!!!!! give us money!!!!" | 15:36 |
| lkcl | and it turns out that actually the only reason that distro could do the work so quickly is because TEN YEARS PREVIOUSLY, debian and fedora did all the hard work in the low-level infrastructure to become the *actual* first distros to do reproducible-builds | 15:36 |
| lkcl | but then didn't shout loudly about it | 15:37 |
| sadoon[m] | They kinda built their reputation and don't need all the hype, they know their stuff is good | 15:37 |
| lkcl | consequently you _will_ find all the tools you need to build entirely from source - but you'll have to do a little digging and/or asking around | 15:37 |
| lkcl | exactly | 15:37 |
| lkcl | and they just get on with it. | 15:37 |
| lkcl | the wiki is more an "aide-memoire" just like ours is | 15:38 |
| lkcl | so if you get onto oftc.net debian IRC channels you'll find they'll be pretty helpful | 15:38 |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 16:44 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 17:53 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 17:54 | |
| markos | lkcl, just occured to me, only the assembler file needs to be compiled with the power assember | 18:52 |
| markos | assembler | 18:52 |
| markos | all the rest of the files could be compiled using normal C so you wouldn't have to include all those python dependencies | 18:53 |
| markos | but in that case you cannot link the ppc64le .o file directly | 18:53 |
| markos | in that case you need the .bin file to load straight in the simulator | 18:53 |
| markos | I can modify the code to make it run on x86 as well | 18:54 |
| markos | and I will do that after I finish chacha20, and for all the examples, I would have to build an x86 libresoc dev environment though to make sure they work | 18:54 |
| markos | so people might choose a ppc64le or x86 dev environment (or whatever for that matter as long as there is a ppc64le (cross) assembler available | 18:55 |
| lkcl | markos, yep, correct: and the binutils-ppc64-le cross-compiler needs to be compiled and installed from source anyway with the svp64 support | 19:05 |
| markos | good, I'll tackle that after I'm done with chacha20, which shouldn't take that much longer | 19:07 |
| lkcl | star | 19:12 |
| *** gnucode <gnucode!~gnucode@user/jab> has joined #libre-soc | 19:52 | |
| *** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 20:11 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 21:13 | |
| *** gnucode <gnucode!~gnucode@user/jab> has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| *** gnucode <gnucode!~gnucode@user/jab> has joined #libre-soc | 21:14 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC | 23:21 | |
| *** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc | 23:52 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!