Tuesday, 2023-05-16

*** yambo <yambo!~yambo@069-145-120-113.biz.spectrum.com> has quit IRC00:07
*** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has quit IRC05:10
*** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has joined #libre-soc05:12
ghostmansd[m]lkcl, sure with such a format change you can do it simpler. There's no need writing in tasks about using a regex, then.07:12
ghostmansd[m]As with underscores: this is again yet another personal opinion not supported by technical rationale. I have no problems with underscores at all, this is perfectly acceptable practice. Calling some practice "irritating" and "unnecessary" is too an extreme wording, you wouldn't perhaps like someone speaking in the same terms about your code.07:17
ghostmansd[m]I'll never get what's the problem with metaclasses and how named tuples solve it, but OK.07:19
programmerjakeI'll note that I tend to read text like _x as "x" and just visually remember that it starts with an underscore.07:21
ghostmansd[m]Next time, if you allow the input to be changed that much, please don't mention regexes to avoid wasting my time on making the code with them readable. I changed the part where the comment resides only because I asked whether we need instruction other than for diagnostics; when I got a confirmation we don't need it for other purposes, I allowed the format to be changed.07:22
programmerjakethough I'll note that it's standard practice in Python to not rename imports to start with an underscore07:22
programmerjakeat least in all the code I've read outside of what ghostmansd wrote07:23
programmerjake(includes plenty of non-libre-soc code)07:23
ghostmansd[m]Most of the time, people don't care about these things, to be honest.07:26
ghostmansd[m]But, unlike "irritating and unnecessary", these are valid points.07:27
ghostmansd[m]And these make sense technically.07:27
programmerjakethat's true, though if there are dozens of things that are non-standard, it makes code substantially more difficult to read since people have to think a lot harder about all the non-standard parts and have less mental capacity left for all the important algorithm bits07:28
ghostmansd[m]I don't really defend this idea, I don't care about it that much, but I don't support the way the original statement was done.07:29
programmerjakee.g. try reading COBOL -- it does a bunch of stuff in a non-standard-for-current-programming-languages, which makes it harder to read07:30
programmerjakein a way that's non-standard...07:31
*** ghostmansd <ghostmansd!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC07:35
lkclghostmansd[m], sorry: i said *if* you use regex.08:07
lkclghostmansd[m]: namedtuples are 2-5 lines (one of which is the import), not 10-20-30-50.08:09
lkcli'm really sorry folks but i am dealing with domestic abuse (as in: i am being *subjected* to domestic abuse)08:10
programmerjakeI'll note I find dataclasses much easier to read since it's a field-per-line rather than all the fields mushed into one really long line without being easily visually distinguishable08:11
lkclas it is ongoing and systematic it means i cannot "wait until things are nicey-nicey and calm" because that could be years. i am therefore attempting to do code-review as best i can08:11
lkclplease please for god's sake be understanding in that even the "smallest" thing may cause me deep distress08:12
lkclwhich in *anyone else* not under the circumstance of being systematically subjected to domestic abuse they would laugh at these things08:13
ghostmansd[m]No they won't. Nobody's laughing.08:14
ghostmansd[m]This is perfectly understandable.08:14
lkclprogrammerjake, when it's important to have comments per field then one-field-per-line is great...08:15
lkclbut it doesn't follow that dataclasses are better than namedtuples *because* the fields are all on one line08:15
ghostmansd[m]This is not the point of dataclasses. :-)08:15
lkcldataclasses are "better" if you *have* to have the features of the hash (etc) which you described to me some time ago08:16
programmerjakeI didn't say they're universally better, I said I find them easier to read08:16
ghostmansd[m]But OK, I see where this is going.08:16
ghostmansd[m]Let's stop this now.08:16
lkclindeed. other things to do08:16
lkcli'm really sorry folks08:16
programmerjakethat's exactly why I wrote plain_data..since it's basically dataclasses without the type annotations lkcl strongly dislikes08:17
lkcli didn't want to put that on IRC.08:17
ghostmansd[m]I'm sorry too.08:17
lkclappreciated ghostmansd[m]08:17
ghostmansd[m]I used wordings which should have been different. Please don't take it personally.08:18
lkclso please don't take short/curt criticism harshly.08:18
lkclno, you meant what you said, and i appreciate your honesty - please don't ever stop doing that - i do mean ever08:19
ghostmansd[m]I meant, but the choice of words is important too.08:19
programmerjakelkcl: I'm trying...08:19
ghostmansd[m]Same things can be said differently.08:19
lkcl(but do be mindful that if someone _does_ ever say "stop" that you do respect their wishes)08:19
lkclprogrammerjake, i really appreciate that08:20
lkclghostmansd[m], everyone gets stressed, you have the absolute inalienable right - we all do - to say how we feel in any given moment08:21
programmerjakeyes, but lets please be polite :) people are much more likely to react positively08:22
lkcla nice goal (for me) to aim for: can i ask you to prompt me on that, if ever you feel it appropriate?08:23
programmerjakeok, I can try...08:25
lkclok so with apologies for the abruptness, i pulled over the examples and the list of register files08:29
lkcland the names of things.  fields.08:30
lkclprogrammerjake, overflow is a specially-handled keyword/variable in the pseudocode08:37
lkcljust writing it up in https://bugs.libre-soc.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107208:38
programmerjake> programmerjake, overflow is a specially-handled keyword/variable in the pseudocode08:45
programmerjakeyeah, i know08:45
programmerjakesee the comment: https://git.libre-soc.org/?p=openpower-isa.git;a=blob;f=openpower/isa/fpcvt.mdwn;h=d25ba9cde097029494325eb7800306ec1cef9c02;hb=0f21df082b191f27c61de61e1746d842e9685dcf#l19108:46
programmerjakethis is why i specifically mentioned changing it because that is effectively changing the fcvttg spec08:48
lkclit's probably a good idea to put the same comment on line 18908:54
lkcl# only active when OE=1 (something like that)08:54
programmerjakeimho people can just read the comment which is 2 lines away -- really close09:07
lkclno, really, it can't09:18
lkclthe code is read in sequential order09:18
lkclthis is a specification09:18
lkclit has to be exact and no possibility of misunderstanding09:19
lkclspecifications are a pig.09:19
programmerjakeif you want it, feel free to add it. imho the comment doesn't need to be duplicated because people don't read only one line of code and ignore everything else09:26
lkclplease add it - you need to get into the habit09:27
programmerjakeotherwise the spec would have to have the description mixed with the pseudocode in a logical order instead of being a separate section09:28
lkcland to break the assumption that i will always be there to fix things that you leave behind09:28
lkcl(which is not fair to impose on me)09:28
programmerjakeimho it isn't broken. if you think it is, you can fix it09:28
lkcl(which is why it is in the Charter)09:28
lkclit's broken, and i've explained why it is broken, and i am expecting you to take that on-board as a "cancellation" of your opinion that it is "not broken"09:29
lkclput plainly: in the context of a *specification*, your "humble" opinion is invalid and wrong09:30
lkclin the context of *general programming* you are perfectly correct and i would not raise this at all09:30
lkclbut we are not writing "general programs"09:30
programmerjakewell, sorry, i disagree, even taking being a specification into account.09:30
lkclwe are writing a *specification* that *happens* to be written in a programming language09:30
lkcljacob: please listen. please sort it out.09:31
lkcli am not going to repeat myself, i have enough to deal with09:32
lkclit is not ok for you to expect me to pick up after you just because "in your humble opinion" you disagree09:32
programmerjakewell, you can't cancel my opinion like that, that's not how that works -- changing my opinion needs a better technical justification. if you want a trivial change like that, you should just do it since it'd take like 30s. or you can wait till later when i'm working on it and i may change it just to make you happy09:35
lkcli am not asking you to *cancel* your opinion, i am asking you to take into account the fact that i am expecting to get line-by-line reviews from the ISA WG09:37
programmerjakeyes, and i fully expect those reviewers to read more than one line at a time and take into account the context, which includes the comment 2 lines away09:38
lkclprogrammerjake, please see PM09:38
programmerjakei'll add the comment in the morning09:43
programmerjakeah, thx for the bugzilla comment, will serve as a good reminder09:44
*** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has quit IRC11:31
*** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has joined #libre-soc11:44
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC14:36
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has joined #libre-soc14:37
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has quit IRC15:14
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has joined #libre-soc15:14
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has quit IRC15:48
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has joined #libre-soc15:49
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has quit IRC15:55
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has joined #libre-soc15:56
*** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has quit IRC16:16
*** lxo <lxo!~lxo@gateway/tor-sasl/lxo> has joined #libre-soc16:59
*** tplaten <tplaten!~tplaten@> has joined #libre-soc18:15
*** tplaten <tplaten!~tplaten@> has quit IRC18:38
sadoon[m]Still sick guys so might not join tonight or just stay for a bit18:41
programmerjakehope you feel better!18:51
lkclsadoon[m], no problem - appreciate it's late19:39
*** knar <knar!~knar@2405:201:d02a:700f:8c13:c8f9:87d:b9b8> has joined #libre-soc19:39
knargood news I was able to build cavatools, found some bugs in the build(i have raised a PR) not sure if it was just my fault but it now works. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻19:51
*** knar <knar!~knar@2405:201:d02a:700f:8c13:c8f9:87d:b9b8> has quit IRC19:52
programmerjakei'll be a few min late for the meeting19:58
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@> has quit IRC23:36
*** ghostmansd[m] <ghostmansd[m]!~ghostmans@broadband-109-173-83-100.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #libre-soc23:37

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!