Wednesday, 2023-06-21

lkclghostmansd[m], you realise that the server gets hammered every time it has to construct a page with 1,000 comments? :)00:28
lkclmust tell you about the glenmorangie mistake i made in a pub... twice...00:28
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ghostmansd[m]lkcl, Glenmorangie usually isn't that bad, I tried it several times :-)11:17
ghostmansd[m]I wouldn't say it's in my top though11:18
ghostmansd[m]My favorite is Laphroaig, then go Talisker and Lagavulin11:19
ghostmansd[m]If we talk about blended, I like Chivas11:19
ghostmansd[m]But I'm by no means an expert. I even doubt I'd pass blind test.11:20
ghostmansd[m]Except for Laphroaig perhaps, its taste is quite unique.11:20
ghostmansd[m]Oh, I forgot about Macallan. Really simple to drink, nothing specific, but sweet and kinda like... I don't know, butterscotch?11:22
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lkclohh it wasn't the taste that was the problem, it was that in 1994 it was GBP 10 for a single shot.11:39
ghostmansd[m]Hey, just buy a bottle :-)12:08
ghostmansd[m]In Russia drinks are way overpriced in restaurants too12:09
ghostmansd[m]Sometimes one shot can reach 1/5 of the bottle, or even more12:09
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sadoon[m]So it's not as bad as I expected. Seems reasonable compared to other CoCs I've seen recently16:29
lkclahh it's sort-of based on the "kind communications"17:50
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ghostmansd[m]Anytime I see such stuff, I'm always wondering what's the definition of "kind" :-)18:35
ghostmansd[m]I mean, something which is kind for one person might be not that much for another18:36
ghostmansd[m]But at least that's not about _just_ being diverse and other rather political stuff18:37
ghostmansd[m]In the recent years, this kinda became the primary motto. It's virtually impossible to find an open source developer who concentrates on the code, not political principles.18:38
ghostmansd[m]I mean, I certainly understand parts of this movement. But this is not the main part of what open source is.18:39
markos_ghostmansd[m], *I* concentrate on the code, I couldn't care less about political correctness, in fact I'm actually of the opinion that the earlier times of the internet with the endless flamewars were actually more honest, people were not afraid to speak up, and guess what, kick/bans were a thing then too18:50
markos_people did cross the line then too and usually the communities were quick to respond18:50
markos_in my 24y of Debian I remember quite a few cases where people were kicked out of the project because of that18:51
ghostmansd[m]markos, I cannot agree more. Everything you said, I totally join this.18:51
markos_unfortunately nowadays, everyone is too trigger-happy to call for political correctness and as a result the majority stay silent -though they actually disagree18:52
markos_people are actually afraid to speak their opinion right now18:52
ghostmansd[m]Well, now we have main/master wars. Like other issues are solved.18:52
markos_this one is the most ridiculous of the wars18:52
ghostmansd[m]In some "open" source projects, you now cannot even say a single damn word without fear to hurt someone.18:53
markos_"master" naming was never about slavery, master in old english means the person who is ready to marry, and in other cases a teacher of an art18:53
markos_hence, Bachelor -> Master -> Mister (married, no not PhD :)18:53
markos_just because some people used master/slave naming, doesn't mean it was about that18:54
markos_quite a few people have unsubscribed from the usual discussion mailing lists and are only interested in the strictly technical discussions18:56
markos_which is a good thing in a way18:56
markos_but the result is that everything non-technical is decided by other more vocal people18:56
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ghostmansdchecking differences between, setup.cfg, pyproject.toml... this is insane20:01
ghostmansdwhy would Python developers do it to themselves?20:01
ghostmansdDamn. Is anyone experienced in this crap?20:17
ghostmansdWhat I want to do is install mdis module from;a=summary in openpower-isa
ghostmansdI tried following the way cprop does it, but failed. The best URL I tried is "git+", but it creates UNKNOWN-0.0.0-py3.7.egg.20:19
ghostmansdApparently pyproject.toml and miss something, but what?20:19
programmerjakecopy the code I used for cached_property... (don't forget the two different spots, one is used by pip the other by install/develop20:19
ghostmansdI'm really drowning in information about pyproject.toml, setup.cfg and setup.py20:20
ghostmansdYes I have two different spots.20:20
ghostmansdBut when I try to use a fixed version, I get this:20:20
programmerjakedoes ignore pyproject.toml?20:20
ghostmansdIt's just setup() call20:22
programmerjakecached-property uses everything in, try copying that20:22
programmerjakeinstead of in pyproject.toml20:22
ghostmansdI had an impression they switched to pyproject.toml, and is obsolete20:23
ghostmansdWhat's strange, when I do this: `pip3 install git+`20:23
ghostmansdEverything works20:23
ghostmansdIt just doesn't work with openpower-isa setup.py20:23
programmerjakeit is, but since luke doesn't like pip we have to use setup.py20:23
ghostmansd1 sec, let me post what I have so far20:23
programmerjakeit may work in setup,cfg too20:24
ghostmansddiff for openpower-isa:
programmerjakeyou forgot to specify the git branch/tag20:28
programmerjakewhere cached_property has @1.5.2 you need @master20:28
ghostmansdwhy pip doesn't need it?20:29
ghostmansdI haven't used it since pip is fine w/o it20:29
programmerjakecuz pip isn't setuptools? idk20:30
ghostmansdadding @master doesn't fix UNKNOWN egg20:31
ghostmansdOK this seems I need to repeat from cprop20:32
programmerjakei guess pip calls to get the list of deps, then pip installs them itself, then runs install20:32
ghostmansdso much copy-paste20:32
programmerjakeyeah, or setup.cfg since setuptools actually reads that20:32
ghostmansdah well, even worse20:33
ghostmansderror: The 'mdis@ git+' distribution was not found and is required by libresoc-openpower-is20:33
ghostmansderror: The 'mdis@ git+' distribution was not found and is required by libresoc-openpower-isa20:33
programmerjakesetup.cfg is probably easiest since the format is nearly identical20:33
ghostmansddamn this is fricking madness20:33
programmerjakeyeah...cargo is waay easier20:34
programmerjakemaybe you do actually need the mdis version at the end? not just #egg=mdis20:36
ghostmansdI tried it20:36
ghostmansdsame result20:37
ghostmansdagain, pip works with #egg, without it, with #egg and specific version20:37
programmerjakehmm, lemme try locally...20:37
ghostmansdfuck it, let me just import toml module which parses pyporject.toml and passes it to setup.py20:39
ghostmansd(I mean setup function there)20:39
ghostmansdwith open("pyproject.toml", "r", encoding="UTF-8") as stream:20:41
ghostmansdpyproject = toml.load(stream)20:42
ghostmansdon the first glance this works :-)20:42
programmerjakeimho you really should use setup.cfg instead of that mess20:42
ghostmansdI'll support this one later, right now I just want to move on20:47
ghostmansdIf this format can replace both and pyproject.toml, I'm fine with that20:47
ghostmansdI just had an impression they advocate pyproject.toml, though20:47
ghostmansdFuck, before today I thought that C build systems suck20:47
ghostmansdNow I see they're not even close20:47
programmerjakethey do, but because they don't expect anyone to install using install instead of pip20:48
ghostmansdit seems we always choose unorthodox solutions, eh?20:49
programmerjakewell, if you were doing this the same way as some C build systems you'd just have instructions in a readme somewhere to manually git clone and build/install all deps20:49
ghostmansdfound yet another beast which "solves" everything:
ghostmansdyes, and with the way it's handled in Python I have tons of instructions which contradict to each other and advocate different options :-)20:50
ghostmansdcareful, done a force push in mdis20:51
ghostmansdshould break nothing since it's not used yet, but that was a mandatory disclaimer20:51
programmerjakei got git dependencies to work:21:05
programmerjakefrom setuptools import setup21:06
programmerjakesetup(name="prj1", version='0.1.0')21:06
programmerjakefrom setuptools import setup21:06
programmerjake    name="prj2",21:07
programmerjake    version='0.1.0',21:07
programmerjake    install_requires=["prj1@"+prj1],21:07
programmerjake    dependency_links=[prj1],21:07
programmerjakemodify git path as appropriate...21:07
ghostmansdJacob, want a fun story?21:08
ghostmansdHere's an excerpt from logs21:08
ghostmansdWriting /tmp/easy_install-zety6evm/mdis.git/setup.cfg21:08
ghostmansdThis is damn insane, really21:08
programmerjakewell, it's python, what did you expect :)21:10
ghostmansdsome hours since I met Python build system, and I'm already in the haters camp21:11
programmerjakemakes me wish we had decided to use rust...cargo does a much better job of dependency management afaict21:11
programmerjakei get the impression git dependencies are barely supported by setuptools21:13
ghostmansdthen there'd likely be only several people to develop it :-)21:13
programmerjakeanother reason not to parse toml and give that to setup(): toml isn't guaranteed to exist, tomllib was only added to python stdlib in python 3.1121:22
ghostmansdI don't use tomllib21:28
ghostmansdbut I agree this is disgusting hack21:30
programmerjakeyes, but toml (which you do use) is an external dependency that install can't install for you if needed21:30
programmerjakesince you try to import it before running setup()21:30
ghostmansdJacob, I have no objections if you want to switch it to setup.cfg now :-)21:31
programmerjakek, i may do that later21:31
ghostmansdfor now I simply pick something that works, I really want to complete this task one day21:32
ghostmansdJacob, could you, please, check, that openpower-isa@mdis works for you?21:34
ghostmansdI'm afraid to break something21:34 + import mdis21:36
ghostmansdShould be sufficient21:36
programmerjakeyeah, sec...21:36
programmerjakeseems to work for me when using develop21:39
programmerjakepip install -e . seems to work too21:41
programmerjakei didn't test with missing toml though21:42
ghostmansdthank you!21:45
ghostmansdmissing toml should never happen: I set it as dependency for mdis21:45
programmerjakeit should happen when installing via install, since it tries to import toml before it ever gets to dependency resolution21:46
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lkcli love the MAINery of the english language that people have today.  MAINing of good communication is so important.21:53
lkclghostmansd[m], "install mdis module from;a=summary in openpower-isa" no please don't do that21:54
ghostmansd[m]That's why it is in branch :-)21:55
ghostmansd[m]I'm more than willing to know the alternative. Below are several pages of my butthurt caused by python packages.21:55
ghostmansd[m]So yes, anything sane is absolutely welcome.21:56
lkclput it into here;a=blob;f=hdl-dev-repos;hb=HEAD21:56
lkclyou already have write-permission21:56
programmerjakeah, yeah, mdis is expected to change so should be installed with develop21:57
ghostmansd[m]Should I use `pip3 install mdis`, `pip3 install -e /mdis`, `python3` (beware, that's hacky!)?21:57
lkclabsolutely not.21:57
lkclunder no circumstances use pip321:58
programmerjakecached_property won't change so a git dependency is fine21:58
lkclit is an external resource and we absolutely must not depend on external resources21:58
ghostmansd[m]Ok, I simply chose the stuff I knew we took from git21:58
lkcldebian is borderline (and pragmatic)21:58
lkclpypi is so unstable and easily hackable they are barely keeping it under control21:59
ghostmansd[m]Ok, no pip, noted21:59
ghostmansd[m]Is there any way I could install pyproject.toml?21:59
ghostmansd[m]Just look at and you'll see why I ask :-)21:59
lkclnot without a large budget to cover the massive conversion that would be required21:59
ghostmansd[m]No, I mean this project22:00
ghostmansd[m]Not the whole openpower-isa22:00
lkclfeel free if you prefer it but i honestly wouldn't bother.22:00
ghostmansd[m]Do you mean it's OK to keep as is, just move to dev scripts?22:00
lkclif you've done it and it works don't waste time22:01
ghostmansd[m]There's another issue here, there's toml dependency22:01
ghostmansd[m]Because I started with pyproject.toml22:01
ghostmansd[m]But I can just move the crap into I think22:01
programmerjakefor openpower-isa.git, pyproject.toml only has pytest config, the rest is in setup.py22:02
lkclwhich is precisely f*****g why guido van rossum did *not* make critically depend on any external dependency22:02
* lkcl sigh22:02
ghostmansd[m]When I started digging into python build systems, everyone recommends pyproject.toml22:02
lkclthat's because they're f*****g idiots who have no thought for consequences.22:02
programmerjakeyes, because everyone but us use pip22:02
lkclif "import toml" was part of the *standard python library* it would be perfectly fine22:03
ghostmansd[m]Folks, let's not start pip discussion22:03
ghostmansd[m]Yeah it isn't22:03
programmerjaketomllib is in 3.1122:03
ghostmansd[m]So I think I should either get rid of pyproject.toml22:03
lkclbut making absolutely every single install depend on an *independ...*... and now you know why22:03
ghostmansd[m]Or perhaps there's some magic command to do the same as does but with toml?22:04
lkclbut under no circumstances are we going to drop everything and "convert to python 3.11" as the baseline mininum version22:04
lkclyes just put it into a dictionary.22:04
ghostmansd[m]I know about `python3 -m build`22:04
ghostmansd[m]Is it standard?22:04
lkcluse "" that has been used for 25+ years22:04
programmerjakeyeah, i know we're not converting to 3.1122:04
ghostmansd[m]Ok, let's use goddamn dict :-D22:04
ghostmansd[m]Fuck so tired of this build system journey22:05
programmerjakeyeah, it's a mess...22:05
ghostmansd[m]Several hours down the drain22:05
lkclthere is standard online documentation on how to do this.22:05
lkclusing setup.py22:05
lkcland setuptools22:05
lkclcopy the style from any of the that i have done22:06
programmerjakesorry, i should have told you to not use a git dependency earlier22:06
lkclopenpower-isa, soc, nmutil,22:06
ghostmansd[m]I'll simply put everything from toml22:06
lkclbut leave out the dependencies because you don't have any22:06
ghostmansd[m]Into a dict22:06
ghostmansd[m]Nope, haven't had until this evening22:06
lkclghostmansd[m], this will do22:07
lkclsorry i meant a list22:07
ghostmansd[m]I meant arguments in setup22:07
lkclyes that's it22:07
ghostmansd[m]You see, I populated them from dict :-)22:07
ghostmansd[m]Totally disgusting22:07
lkclaawwwesome :)22:08
lkclsetup (**kwargs) is an awesome way to do it :)22:08
ghostmansd[m]Yeah, but a dependency :-(22:08
ghostmansd[m]So I'll put them directly now22:08
ghostmansd[m]You see, these kwargs came from toml22:09
lkclyou can still do that in - just not with a dumb toml file22:09
ghostmansd[m]That's the idea22:09
ghostmansd[m]Ok, willdo22:09
ghostmansd[m]BTW, I renamed the instance argument to node22:09
ghostmansd[m]I guess it's the most accurate definition22:09
lkclhey y'know if you feel like writing a braindead-simple toml reader in i mean feel free :)22:10
lkclprobably for the best eh? :)22:10
ghostmansd[m]TBH, I almost hate this task already :-D22:10
ghostmansd[m]And want to finish it22:10
ghostmansd[m]I like the code which we get22:10
ghostmansd[m]But so fucking tired22:10
programmerjakejust temporarily replace setup(**args) with pprint(args) and you can copy the output into setup.py22:10
ghostmansd[m]Oh, nice22:11
ghostmansd[m]Thanks Jacob!22:11
ghostmansd[m]Yeah this is ass-kicking22:11
ghostmansd[m]Moar hacks needed!22:11
programmerjakeyou need from pprint import pprint22:11
lkclit was worth getting it right, but we need to stop designing and start "using-then-rethinking"22:12
lkclmoving on to the "third iteration" of "plan-to-do-three-iterations-because-if-you-don't-you-will-anyway"22:13
ghostmansd[m]Printed arguments as json with indent=4, nice22:13
programmerjakewell, technically pprint is a fancy repr rather than json22:15
ghostmansd[m]Yep, I just don't like its indents22:16
ghostmansd[m]Perhaps they have an option to do it better22:16
lkcli really like pprint22:18
programmerjakewell, most good editors have autoindent when you type tab, can just manually adjust the opening/closing {}22:18
programmerjakeplus iirc pprint has an indent-depth option22:19
lkclyes it does22:19
ghostmansd[m]I edit with ed22:19
* lkcl snorts22:19
lkclwhat's wrong with ex??22:20
ghostmansd[m]I'm old-fashioned22:20
ghostmansd[m]ex is too recent22:20
ghostmansd[m]Nice cartoon22:20
lkclprogrammerjake, lol22:22
lkclC-x M-c M-butterfly haha22:22
ghostmansd[m]I probably already mentioned my favorite manual on emacs?22:24
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programmerjakelkcl: thx for helping getting 2022-08-051 up and working!22:25
ghostmansdBUGS: Yes.22:25
lkclprogrammerjake, yeah took a while22:27
ghostmansdBehold! The simplest ever:;a=blob;;h=85a50a47ea2fd04339d12794340e2affdb0f5768;hb=HEAD22:28
ghostmansdIt even seems to work with `python3 -m build`!22:29
ghostmansd[m]Added mdis to hdl-dev-repos22:37
ghostmansdLuke, your "hack-revert" reverted too much22:46
ghostmansdI mean changes in insndb22:46
ghostmansdPlease next time don't do it this way, because like it or not, it at least _worked_.22:46
ghostmansdI wasted many hours for this infrastructure for it be "hack-reverted".22:47
ghostmansdI have no idea how to restore it. Fuck.22:50
ghostmansdI know there's path branch, but your hack-revert makes it close to impossible to re-apply parts of these patches.22:50
ghostmansdThis is a complete disregard of other's work.22:51
ghostmansdThe only good news is that _some_ of these changes are obsolete. But everything else is _bad_ news.22:52
ghostmansdI fixed the original issue, but you still did this. I have to restore these changes manually.22:55
ghostmansdOK, perhaps more of it got obsolete by mdis approach. Yet another good news.23:00
ghostmansdOK, I already managed to switch some commands to new interface.23:21
ghostmansdlist, opcodes, pcode and extras work!23:21
ghostmansdIn fact, pcode command even already uses dispatcher hook for PCode object23:21

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