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| lkcl | sadoon[m], personally i'm not keen on the space-wastage caused by creating packages that "include everything". | 13:59 |
|---|---|---|
| lkcl | although i'm aware of the convenience | 13:59 |
| lkcl | amazon's "app" is basically a 1 gigabyte repackaged full containerised operating system | 14:00 |
| lkcl | google's "app updates" for the Samsung N9005 overtook *12* gigabytes of the 16 GB available eMMC storage! | 14:01 |
| lkcl | i am now forced to do a full chroot of debian/10 just to get wicd-gtk to install. | 14:02 |
| lkcl | (it's the only *stand-alone* - non-network-manager-based non-systemd-infected - *graphical* wireless manager) | 14:03 |
| lkcl | duhokkkah is about the worst-offender going down the route of containerisation, with its lack of proper revision control and constant incompatible API changes *on top* of the space-wastage | 14:06 |
| lkcl | duhokkaa is at the really bad end of this type of "thin automated wrapper around what is effectively just a chroot" | 14:09 |
| lkcl | proot is at the elegant end https://packages.debian.org/sid/proot | 14:10 |
| lkcl | schroot is what we use in libre-soc and it does a damn good job | 14:11 |
| lkcl | but neither proot nor schroot take it the step further by integrating a *package* manager into the mix, like rpm-ostree does | 14:11 |
| lkcl | ostree looks good... https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree | 14:13 |
| lkcl | ah ha! | 14:13 |
| lkcl | https://github.com/stb-tester/apt2ostree | 14:13 |
| lkcl | that's what i was looking for | 14:14 |
| lkcl | arse. | 14:18 |
| lkcl | that's what we should have been using all along | 14:18 |
| lkcl | oh wait - except of course you can't change the contents unless you drop /home *into* the chroot... and for "python3 setup.py develop" it's a little awkward... but could be made to work... | 14:19 |
| lkcl | hmmm if the call of "python3 setup.py develop" is done as part of a debian/postinst script *before* the mount --bind of home-dir into the ostree-chroot, it'd work | 14:20 |
| sadoon[m] | <lkcl> "sadoon, personally i'm not..." <- It's not necessary though, you can install software into the ostree regularly without flatpak and the containers can have multiple apps | 14:24 |
| sadoon[m] | I think both approaches are good and necessary, to have the classic systemwide packages and libraries AND the ability to run apps that are perhaps not compatible with your system libraries for whatever reasons. | 14:26 |
| sadoon[m] | If you add to that bwrap sandboxing and fine tuned control, it's much nicer than just giving a browser access to all my files | 14:26 |
| sadoon[m] | Anyways, I'm getting ahead of myself, I'll focus on Debian rebuild for now :p | 14:28 |
| lkcl | :) | 14:29 |
| sadoon[m] | <lkcl> "https://github.com/stb-tester/..." <- Hmm.. Inticing | 14:29 |
| openpowerbot | [slack] <github> signin | 14:29 |
| sadoon[m] | Will *definitely* look into apt2ostree | 14:29 |
| lkcl | slack interfering and injecting itself into the conversation lol | 14:29 |
| sadoon[m] | heheh | 14:29 |
| lkcl | yeah we really should have used it for the dev-env-setup scripts | 14:30 |
| lkcl | my favourite along this kind of theme is that termux, like openembedded, use full apt packaging *independent* of debian packaging, to the extent of putting it into a completely separate (configurable) root directory | 14:31 |
| lkcl | that was an idea i had a long time ago for doing userspace-packaging/management under msys/gnuwin32. | 14:32 |
| lkcl | and it's really nice to see termux actually implementing it | 14:32 |
| sadoon[m] | Yeah it's very cool | 14:33 |
| lkcl | i'd really much prefer anlinux to use debootstrap rather than "distribute a root image" - that's just down to inexperience on their part | 14:33 |
| sadoon[m] | Ironically I was introduced to debian packaging back in the days of Cydia, the jailbroken iPhone app repo | 14:33 |
| sadoon[m] | Circa 2012 | 14:34 |
| lkcl | there's really no excuse for "doing a dohkkkkah" | 14:34 |
| lkcl | niice | 14:34 |
| lkcl | "PRoot is a user-space implementation of chroot, mount --bind, and binfmt_misc." | 14:35 |
| lkcl | frickin awesome | 14:35 |
| sadoon[m] | Developed by the Debian guys iirc? | 14:51 |
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| lkcl | that doesn't surprise me at all | 16:06 |
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| ghostmansd[m] | WTF, how do they make chroot and mount in userspace? | 20:53 |
| ghostmansd[m] | Mount can be done via fuse, but chroot... how? Some weird overlay FS? | 20:53 |
| ghostmansd[m] | > Ironically I was introduced to debian packaging back in the days of Cydia, the jailbroken iPhone app repo | 20:54 |
| ghostmansd[m] | You're not alone :-) The only iPhone I had was given to me as a gift when I finished the school, right before the university. Obviously the first thing I did was the jailbreak. | 20:55 |
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| sadoon[m] | They were fun days | 22:06 |
| lkcl | ghostmansd[m], redirection through ptrace syscall! :) | 22:30 |
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