Thursday, 2023-06-29

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lkclsadoon[m], personally i'm not keen on the space-wastage caused by creating packages that "include everything".13:59
lkclalthough i'm aware of the convenience13:59
lkclamazon's "app" is basically a 1 gigabyte repackaged full containerised operating system14:00
lkclgoogle's "app updates" for the Samsung N9005 overtook *12* gigabytes of the 16 GB available eMMC storage!14:01
lkcli am now forced to do a full chroot of debian/10 just to get wicd-gtk to install.14:02
lkcl(it's the only *stand-alone* - non-network-manager-based non-systemd-infected - *graphical* wireless manager)14:03
lkclduhokkkah is about the worst-offender going down the route of containerisation, with its lack of proper revision control and constant incompatible API changes *on top* of the space-wastage14:06
lkclduhokkaa is at the really bad end of this type of "thin automated wrapper around what is effectively just a chroot"14:09
lkclproot is at the elegant end
lkclschroot is what we use in libre-soc and it does a damn good job14:11
lkclbut neither proot nor schroot take it the step further by integrating a *package* manager into the mix, like rpm-ostree does14:11
lkclostree looks good...
lkclah ha!14:13
lkclthat's what i was looking for14:14
lkclthat's what we should have been using all along14:18
lkcloh wait - except of course you can't change the contents unless you drop /home *into* the chroot... and for "python3 develop" it's a little awkward... but could be made to work...14:19
lkclhmmm if the call of "python3 develop" is done as part of a debian/postinst script *before* the mount --bind of home-dir into the ostree-chroot, it'd work14:20
sadoon[m]<lkcl> "sadoon, personally i'm not..." <- It's not necessary though, you can install software into the ostree regularly without flatpak and the containers can have multiple apps14:24
sadoon[m]I think both approaches are good and necessary, to have the classic systemwide packages and libraries AND the ability to run apps that are perhaps not compatible with your system libraries for whatever reasons.14:26
sadoon[m]If you add to that bwrap sandboxing and fine tuned control, it's much nicer than just giving a browser access to all my files14:26
sadoon[m]Anyways, I'm getting ahead of myself, I'll focus on Debian rebuild for now :p14:28
sadoon[m]<lkcl> "" <- Hmm.. Inticing14:29
openpowerbot[slack] <github> signin14:29
sadoon[m]Will *definitely* look into apt2ostree14:29
lkclslack interfering and injecting itself into the conversation lol14:29
lkclyeah we really should have used it for the dev-env-setup scripts14:30
lkclmy favourite along this kind of theme is that termux, like openembedded, use full apt packaging *independent* of debian packaging, to the extent of putting it into a completely separate (configurable) root directory14:31
lkclthat was an idea i had a long time ago for doing userspace-packaging/management under msys/gnuwin32.14:32
lkcland it's really nice to see termux actually implementing it14:32
sadoon[m]Yeah it's very cool14:33
lkcli'd really much prefer anlinux to use debootstrap rather than "distribute a root image" - that's just down to inexperience on their part14:33
sadoon[m]Ironically I was introduced to debian packaging back in the days of Cydia, the jailbroken iPhone app repo14:33
sadoon[m]Circa 201214:34
lkclthere's really no excuse for "doing a dohkkkkah"14:34
lkcl"PRoot is a user-space implementation of chroot, mount --bind, and binfmt_misc."14:35
lkclfrickin awesome14:35
sadoon[m]Developed by the Debian guys iirc?14:51
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lkclthat doesn't surprise me at all16:06
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ghostmansd[m]WTF, how do they make chroot and mount in userspace?20:53
ghostmansd[m]Mount can be done via fuse, but chroot... how? Some weird overlay FS?20:53
ghostmansd[m]> Ironically I was introduced to debian packaging back in the days of Cydia, the jailbroken iPhone app repo20:54
ghostmansd[m]You're not alone :-) The only iPhone I had was given to me as a gift when I finished the school, right before the university. Obviously the first thing I did was the jailbreak.20:55
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sadoon[m]They were fun days22:06
lkclghostmansd[m], redirection through ptrace syscall! :)22:30

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