Wednesday, 2023-08-30

openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> toshywoshy: when scheduling the meeting tomorrow note I have someone coming over to work on repairing my house from 9:30 till 12:00 or so, though I can probably attend if the meeting starts at 11 PDT or later00:26
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octaviusHi markos_, toshywoshy, the repairman hasn't come yet to repair my windscreen, shall we start the call earlier?09:24
markos_octavius, sure give me 10 min09:25
toshywoshyI am in the middle of a bash script, want to finish it, that will take another 10 minutes09:25
toshywoshywhere do you want to meet, vthangout or jitsi?09:25
octaviusI'll send a meeting invite to start in 20 min (08:45 UTC)09:26
octaviusI'll also invite ghostmansd[m] and sadoon. Assuming cesar and programmerjake are both asleep, so we can catch up later09:28
ghostmansd[m]Folks, I won't be able to participate now. A regular working day.09:30
octaviusSure, no problem09:30
ghostmansd[m]I'm free since 6 PM MSK.09:30
ghostmansd[m]You might opt to record this, I can view it and drop some comments.09:30
octaviusI'll see if there's a record option. I'll also update the ongoing grant's discussion page on the wiki:09:31
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> I need someone to accept me into the meeting09:34
octaviusjust a sec09:36
openpowerbot[irc] <cesar[m]1> Can I join?09:42
openpowerbot[irc] <cesar[m]1> It's 5:44 here. I'm an early riser.09:45
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octaviusThanks chaps for participating in the meeting, updated the discussion page:
octaviusghostmansd[m], when you have the time, please check your subtasks (we didn't see any problems with description or budget/TOML fields)11:12
octaviusprogrammerjake, when you're up, please update the json file11:12
octaviusonce those tasks are done, unless there's anything else missing, lkcl should be able to submit to nlnet11:13
ghostmansd[m]I have one minor comment for 1003, after some thoughts. One of its subtasks, 1068, turned out to be more work than I initially assumed. I'd like to reallocate at least some budget from any of 1003 subtasks to 1068. 1083 seems to be a nice candidate... say deduce 500 EUR from 1083 and pass it to 1068. Are such changes fine?11:18
ghostmansd[m]I cannot do these changes now, typing from phone. I can do it approx. 5-6 hours later today. Would it be OK?11:19
ghostmansd[m]I know that leaves a small budget for 1083 on my side, but I cannot find a better way to cover works for 1068.11:20
octaviusYeah, we can sort this out11:22
octaviusLet's have a meeting in 5 hours if that's alright with you?11:23
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ghostmansd[m]To be sure, let's perhaps schedule at 4 PM UTC (7 PM MSK)?11:33
octaviusSure, I just sent you a meeting invite11:34
octaviusDoes anyone else want to attend?11:34
ghostmansd[m]Thanks, Andrey!11:34
octaviusNo worries :)11:35
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octaviustoshywoshy, markos_, programmerjake, will you be available in 4 hours time (16:00 UTC)? There are a few more bugs I wanted to discuss with you. I'm already planning a call with ghostmansd[m], but we can cover those other bugs too13:05
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markos_octavius, yes13:26
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openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> I am available at 16:00 UTC but only for <30 min, a repairman's supposed to be arriving at 16:30 UTC15:17
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> I'll put off making the json until we're happy with all the budget assignments15:18
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octaviusack, programmerjake15:27
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openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> lkcl: just to verify, since NLnet.2022-08-107.ongoing has not had the MOU signed yet, we can still change top-level subtasks' budget? I think we should move like EUR 3000 from #1035 (v3.1 insns in isacaller, currently EUR 7000) to #1025 (fpu)15:53
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openpowerbot[irc] <lkcl> programmerjake, no16:34
lkclghostmansd[m], please can you put in a large enough budget as a *single* task to cover binutils (all of the instructions) instead of small tasks16:35
lkclreminder to everyone: we have been specifically requested by NLnet's Director, Bob Goudriaan, *not* to put in tasks less than EUR 1,500.16:35
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> I can merge the binutils tasks16:35
lkclin some cases this is unavoidable but it should under no circumstances be the "norm" like it was for former grants16:36
lkcl - needs to become "add binutils v3.1 instructions"16:36
lkclghostmansd[m], if you need two "tranches" of money (one earlier) then split it into two tasks, "add first set of v3.1 binutils instructions, add 2nd set of v3.1 binutils instructions"16:37
lkclif you then need to keep an eye on tasks that you are completing16:37
lkcl*then* create sub-tasks...16:38
lkclbut *do not assign an NLnet milestone*16:38
lkcl*do not set a budget*16:38
lkcldo not set a "bugdget parent"16:38
lkcljust "use the bugtracker as a bugtracker"16:38
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> iirc the new plan is to merge into #1047 not #1048, #1048 would be closed16:38
lkclprogrammerjake: no.16:39
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> why not?16:39
lkcldmitry needs money as separate and distinct from the work being done that implements the instructions in ISACaller.16:40
lkclon his own time and on his own schedule.16:40
lkclthis should be obvious16:40
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> 1047 *is only* binutils16:40
lkcl - Bug 1047 - SVP64 LD/ST Data-Dependent Fail-First providing linked-list walking16:41
lkclyou meant 114716:42
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> i modified #1147 (sorry, typoed, i always meant #1147) to exclude byte reverses since I thought you wanted that in #1119, but dmitry misunderstood and created #114816:42
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> so i want to merge it all back into #114716:43
lkclthe parent is 1035, so yes.  recommend splitting them into two tranches of budget (if ghostmansd needs the money earlier)16:43
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> i expect it to be simple enough that he can do it all in a few days, so i don't expect splitting to be necessary16:44
lkclmake sure to check with him. make guestimates-for-thinking-ahead but don't assume-and-proceed-without-checking16:46
ghostmansd[m]Ah, sorry, Luke, I missed the chat. What'd be the right way to handle this?16:53
ghostmansd[m]There are two tasks, 1147 and 1148. I can drop milestones. In my defense, for one of the tasks, I just followed the changes Jacob did. :-)16:54
ghostmansd[m]That is, when I saw "except byte reverse" and an assigned milestone in 1047, I added a task 1048 and set milestone.16:55
ghostmansd[m]That said, even if I combine budget for 1047 and 1048, it's still insufficient to make budget of 1500 EUR.16:55
ghostmansd[m]My apologies, I'm still learning how to handle task tracking and budgets.16:56
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> imho just merge everything into #1147 and close #1148, budget can be adjusted up since we have eur 700016:57
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> lkcl, what do you think about putting some of the unit tests for fp ops in #1025 under #1035 (justifiable since they can also be used as tests for ISACaller and maybe some were added in v3.1?) since we can't use the whole 7000 on just what's there right now...17:00
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> i'll be in the meeting in a few min...17:01
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ghostmansd[m]Will be in 2 mins17:03
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markos_is the meeting still on?17:52
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> yes17:53
octaviuslkcl, please check, jacob uploaded latest json18:06
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> lkcl, as mentioned in #961 comment #16, we think the MOU is ready for submission18:10
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lkclghostmansd: the idea is, you decide how much you need, rather than "do work for less money"19:35
lkclprogrammerjake: i thought about it a bit, and *if* ghostmansd is happy with the available amount for what he needs to do, and *you* are happy with the amount to do the v3.1 instructions, *and* there is then some spare, then yes move it over to elsewhere19:36
lkclthere do exist other tasks such as the LD/ST-Imm 322 and the-other-one which need documenting19:36
lkclso there is a balance there19:36
lkclall of which you need to work out (between you)19:36
lkclyes it's genuinely this horrendously complex / detailed, every time.19:37
ghostmansd[m]Whether I'm happy or not really depends on whether this turns out to be as complicated as 1068 :-)19:43
ghostmansd[m]If it's "generate and check whether all these instructions work", that's one story19:44
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> well, I expect it to just be generate and check19:45
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> there won't be new insns getting added to the list19:45
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> afaict the ld/st one (#1079?) already has a sufficient budget19:53
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> docs for #1116 are supposed to come out of another grant iirc19:56
ghostmansd[m]I also expect it to be just generation19:59
ghostmansd[m]That's why I agreed on 1k :-)19:59
ghostmansd[m]I just mention that I also expected 1068 to be waaaay less work20:00
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> so, cesar octavius ghostmansd toshywoshy markos lkcl are you ok with moving the unassigned EUR 4000 from #1035 to #1025 (afaict that's what you were talking about lkcl)20:02
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> since I think we should try to implement all the basic fp stuff, not just mul/add and moves20:03
markos_no objections from me20:08
ghostmansd[m]1035 is second level task IIRC20:25
ghostmansd[m]But not yet approved, right?20:26
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> yes20:26
octaviusNo objections from me20:27
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> so we can change them on our end, just luke said no previously and now apparently changed his mind20:27
ghostmansd[m]I think it's ok as long as we have no activities on 1035. I suggest reserving 500 in case 1035's subtasks turn out to be more work.20:28
ghostmansd[m]It includes all subtasks, not only binutils.20:29
ghostmansd[m]But, if you really feel these is more needed for 1025, feel free to do it20:29
ghostmansd[m]Also, if we have other tasks besides 1025 where this money is useful, feel free too.20:34
ghostmansd[m]Consult Luke for that part20:34
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> ghostmansd, the only work left under #1035 is the binutils stuff, I'm fine with the allocation for all the work i did, so any additional money we leave in there will need to be assigned to binutils20:36
ghostmansd[m]Well, in this case 4k is waaay too much :-)20:37
ghostmansd[m]Ok, let's guys split these 4k into more difficult works20:38
ghostmansd[m]Which are the difficult ones you better know20:38
ghostmansd[m]So I'm leaving this to you20:38
ghostmansd[m]If 1047 (or 1048?) turns out to be difficult, well, this happens sometimes :-)20:39
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> #1025 is severely short on money, when i calculated the budget the whole list of tasks came to >20k20:39
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> like 30k but icr exactly20:40
ghostmansd[m]Ok, then move these, but keep other tasks in mind too. They might also need money.20:40
ghostmansd[m]Just re-check, OK?20:40
ghostmansd[m]And attribute as you think is appropriate.20:40
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> k, if you don't mind I'll work on this all later as i'm currently eating lunch20:41
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> though I will note that I think the vector immediates should be lower priority than all the fp stuff and most the other tasks20:43
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> so if it can't be done fully in its current budget, i think we should just do what fits in its budget and leave the rest for next time20:44
ghostmansd[m]programmerjake, ack, take your time :-)20:58
ghostmansd[pc]Oh, guys, lkcl, programmerjake, kind reminder. Could you, please, create svp64.git or libresoc.git repository (task 979), or grant me rights to do it on my own?21:01
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openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> please don't call it libresoc.git since I think we should reserve that name for eventually renaming libreriscv.git21:07
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> only lkcl has access to create repos21:08
ghostmansd[pc]I've been thinking that specifying -libresoc option to link the library looks cool. :-)21:10
ghostmansd[pc]How about clibresoc.git?21:10
ghostmansd[pc]On the other hand, since it's going to use insndb, perhaps it's easier to put it into openpower-isa...21:12
ghostmansd[pc]Yes, perhaps this'd be better.21:13
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> I'm going to lose internet access on my laptop for a few days, Thursday-Sunday just fyi21:13
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> Can still chat and join meetings21:13
ghostmansd[pc]Out of curiosity, if you're losing internet, how are you going to join? :-)21:13
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> Only on my laptop ;)21:14
ghostmansd[pc]Post pigeons?21:14
ghostmansd[pc]Aaaah OK :-)21:14
ghostmansd[pc]Sorry Sadoon, I could not resist :-D21:14
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> Traveling again, I really need to talk to my carrier about them disabling hotspot while roaming21:14
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> It's a good one heheh21:14
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> openpowerbot: ^21:14
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> Luckily my carrier is now literally my employer21:15
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> So it shouldn't be too difficult to sort it out21:15
ghostmansd[pc]Well you then have an ace up your sleeve!21:15
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> Yup :D21:15
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> Gonna negotiate free roaming and good stuff like that21:16
ghostmansd[pc]Oh, nice :-)21:16
ghostmansd[pc]I got a better mortgage with my employer conditions :-)21:16
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> I'm in cloud services which has a lot of Linux stuff, server hardware, etc21:16
ghostmansd[pc]I think it's more than fair to use such possibilities21:16
openpowerbot[irc] <sadoon[m]1> openpowerbot: Awesome21:17
ghostmansd[pc]Yeah gotta last longer unfortunately than any roaming :-)21:17
ghostmansd[pc]30 years of "awesome" mortgage, sigh21:18
ghostmansd[pc]That's how the capitalism works though, pointless to snivel :-)21:18
ghostmansd[pc]I thought, let's keep it as part of openpower-isa. The user would have to fetch the repo anyway to get insndb, and this one for now is completely tied to openpower-isa.21:25
ghostmansd[pc]I'd make it decoupled, because insndb just gets one top-level directory with insndb.csv and needs some enums, but OK, I have no time to decouple this stuff for now. Also, sometimes decoupling complicates things, and I believe this'd be the case for now.21:26
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openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> I have proposed what to do with the leftover budget:
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> cesar octavius ghostmansd toshywoshy markos lkcl are you ok with that?23:11
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> I proposed assigning EUR 1000 to since it allows us to work on software that needs lots of ram and stuff without needing to wait on figuring out ddr323:12
openpowerbot[irc] <programmerjake> plus it's better than HyperRAM in that it uses the RPi or any random SBC which are much more widely available and have much more ram23:14
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