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| lkcl | programmerjake, its purpose is to be absolute and explicit | 07:50 |
|---|---|---|
| lkcl | and also very specifically to avoid confusion caused by different meanings and changes of use to EXTS() | 07:50 |
| lkcl | plus | 07:50 |
| lkcl | EXTSXL is not defined | 07:51 |
| lkcl | which then needs explanation | 07:51 |
| lkcl | which results in questions | 07:51 |
| lkcl | which results in confusion and delay | 07:51 |
| lkcl | the temporary variable shortens the expressions | 07:52 |
| programmerjake | i didn't put EXTSXL in ls005, EXTS is entirely obvious and already exists | 07:53 |
| lkcl | good catch on the syntax error - as this is not intended to be executed it didn't matter so much | 07:53 |
| lkcl | read up earlier | 07:53 |
| lkcl | its use and meaning *changes* | 07:53 |
| lkcl | that requires explanation | 07:53 |
| lkcl | explanation results in confusion | 07:53 |
| lkcl | confusion results in delays | 07:53 |
| lkcl | exactly: EXTSxl isn't in ls005 | 07:54 |
| lkcl | it's not part of Power ISA v3.1 | 07:54 |
| lkcl | which is what the ISA WG will be comparing this against | 07:54 |
| programmerjake | well, the expanded version I wrote just uses bit slicing, concatenation and repetition, nothing else | 07:54 |
| lkcl | you added a duplicate copy of the function which contained EXTSXL | 07:54 |
| lkcl | which is longer | 07:54 |
| lkcl | and requires explanation | 07:54 |
| lkcl | of a concept that is not part of Power ISA v3.1 | 07:55 |
| lkcl | which is what the ISA WG will ask about | 07:55 |
| lkcl | i have very specifically thought this through | 07:55 |
| lkcl | from the perspective of the ISA WG who know nothing about this | 07:55 |
| lkcl | and are already confused | 07:55 |
| lkcl | ok? | 07:55 |
| lkcl | that's why it's written the way it is | 07:55 |
| lkcl | to avoid *their* confusion | 07:55 |
| lkcl | whether it "looks nice" | 07:56 |
| lkcl | or "is shorter" | 07:56 |
| lkcl | is completely irrelevant because that's not the purpose | 07:56 |
| programmerjake | I *never* added EXTSXL. | 07:56 |
| lkcl | the purpose is: get the concept across to the ISA WG | 07:56 |
| lkcl | precisely! | 07:56 |
| lkcl | i know you never added EXTSXL! | 07:56 |
| programmerjake | EXTS is in v3.1b in book I 1.3.4 | 07:56 |
| lkcl | jacob i've said it three times now | 07:57 |
| lkcl | we *CHANGE* the meaning of EXTS | 07:57 |
| lkcl | second time of repeating: | 07:57 |
| lkcl | please LOOK | 07:57 |
| lkcl | at the earlier examples | 07:57 |
| lkcl | the use of EXTS(SI) is *different* from the use of EXTS() in extsw | 07:57 |
| lkcl | ok? | 07:57 |
| lkcl | that's going to cause MASSIVE confusion to the ISA WG when they read this | 07:57 |
| lkcl | ok? | 07:58 |
| lkcl | i have a SPECIFIC THING I WANT TO COMMUNICATE | 07:58 |
| lkcl | ok? | 07:58 |
| lkcl | and use of EXTS and EXTSXL STOPS ME BEING ABLE TO DO THAT | 07:58 |
| lkcl | ok | 07:58 |
| lkcl | ? | 07:58 |
| lkcl | can you acknowledge that i have a specific purpose for which this pseudocode is intended? | 07:59 |
| programmerjake | so, i'm trying to say that the unexpanded version i wrote could have been deleted but the expanded version communicates exactly what you're were trying to afaict, so it didn't need to be reverted | 07:59 |
| lkcl | yes it did because you removed the temporary variable | 07:59 |
| lkcl | you reduced the clarity | 07:59 |
| programmerjake | ok, i disagree | 07:59 |
| lkcl | you made unnecessary changes | 07:59 |
| lkcl | and | 07:59 |
| lkcl | more than that | 07:59 |
| lkcl | i had a particular speech in my head prepared | 08:00 |
| lkcl | it doesn't even matter if you disagree! | 08:00 |
| lkcl | you are not the one presenting to the ISA WG! | 08:00 |
| lkcl | i am! | 08:00 |
| lkcl | ok? | 08:00 |
| lkcl | you changed what i was to be presenting *without consulting me*! | 08:01 |
| lkcl | so i get half-way through the presentation and i go "wtf that's not the pseudocode i memorised" | 08:01 |
| lkcl | and i've just wasted their time | 08:01 |
| lkcl | and looked like a complete fool | 08:02 |
| programmerjake | ok, i still fixed the pseudocode which was factually wrong...my intention was to fix the factual errors, sorry for changing it beyond that | 08:02 |
| lkcl | please *don't* change things that i have to present without asking me | 08:02 |
| lkcl | appreciated | 08:02 |
| programmerjake | i didn't realize you were presenting just then, sorry | 08:02 |
| lkcl | and appreciated spotting the extra bracket | 08:02 |
| programmerjake | so, i'd like to implement those extsb/h/w changes in the simulator and unit tests tomorrow, sound good? | 08:08 |
| programmerjake | oh, also: if XLEN = 64 then RT <- in[0] * 56 || in[1:7] # 8->64 | 08:10 |
| programmerjake | that needs to be 57, not 56 | 08:10 |
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| fedorafan | are you into cpu development | 08:32 |
| jn | fedorafan: that's what happens here | 08:36 |
| fedorafan | very interesting do you have knowledge about hardware backdoors | 08:37 |
| programmerjake | not of any specific hardware backdoors, but yes I know how to create them if i wanted... | 08:38 |
| programmerjake | though a lot of hardware has enough bugs that you don't necessarily need to bother, e.g. row-hammer | 08:39 |
| fedorafan | can you give me an simple explanation | 08:39 |
| programmerjake | of hardware backdoors or row-hammer? | 08:40 |
| fedorafan | both? | 08:40 |
| jn | what is your understanding so far, fedorafan? | 08:40 |
| programmerjake | hardware backdoors you just insert a circuit that changes something that causes software to misbehave in the desired fashion, e.g. if there was a special instruction you could run from user-level software that would write to the kernel's memory in order to grant the program root priveleges | 08:42 |
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| programmerjake | row-hammer is where memory cells are soo small these days that the cells can be randomly changed by repeatedly writing to physically nearby memory cells, this can be exploited by getting some important kernel memory (e.g. page tables) to be right next to memory you control, which you can repeatedly write to, thereby changing the kernel memory in a way that can sometimes be exploited | 08:46 |
| programmerjake | this is part of why ddr5 requires memory chips to have error correction internally, because they're small enough that cells can be often randomly flipped and the error correction catches and tries to fix that | 08:53 |
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| fedorafan | hmm | 09:02 |
| fedorafan | probably this is the wrong channel but i will idle for some hours before leaving | 09:02 |
| fedorafan | lets say 2 hours | 09:02 |
| fedorafan | cheriot | 09:02 |
| fedorafan | :) | 09:02 |
| programmerjake | if you're looking for libre-soc.org's irc chat, you came to the right place. we're in different countries all over, so aren't always online the same time | 09:04 |
| programmerjake | so you may have to wait up to 24h or so for some people to reply | 09:05 |
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| lkcl | programmerjake, yes sure go ahead, it's a good idea | 10:26 |
| programmerjake | :) | 10:27 |
| lkcl | "hardware backdoors" can include an entire CPU, sitting idle, only 2,000 to 3,000 gates | 10:28 |
| lkcl | in amongst billions, who's going to spot that? | 10:28 |
| lkcl | particularly when PHYs often *require* an actual entire CPU to do their job | 10:28 |
| programmerjake | lkcl: bugfix: https://libre-soc.org/irclog/%23libre-soc.2023-04-19.log.html#t2023-04-19T08:10:30 | 10:46 |
| programmerjake | gn | 10:47 |
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| lkcl | magic. thx. night. | 11:18 |
| fedorafansuper | wrong place so ciao | 12:25 |
| fedorafansuper | oh oh oh oh | 12:25 |
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| markos | programmerjake, btw, the meeting was over last night so didn't have time to tell you about the dark energy uniformity, a few months ago I had read an article about exactly that | 13:01 |
| markos | https://www.sci.news/astronomy/anisotropic-universe-08312.html | 13:01 |
| markos | turns out the universe is in fact anisotropic and one of the reasons is *perhaps* non-uniformity of dark energy | 13:02 |
| markos | interestingly enough, about 20+ years ago there was an experiment done which measured the speed of light having tiny variations but only around specific angles | 13:03 |
| markos | which essentially made the universe behave like a huge crystal | 13:03 |
| markos | and even more interestingly, when I mentioned this experiment to one of my professors -who does Differential Geometry- he was extremely interested | 13:03 |
| markos | he was working on Finsler Spaces, a anisotropic superset of Reimann Geometry where the speed of light is actually a vector and not a constant | 13:04 |
| markos | and that mathematical model was a good fit | 13:05 |
| markos | anyway | 13:05 |
| markos | I don't have the experiment article at hand but I can try to find it | 13:05 |
| markos | turns out he's still working on that | 13:08 |
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| Ryuno-KiAndrJaen | <markos> "he was working on Finsler Spaces..." <- *Riemann | 15:57 |
| markos | unfortunately, I'm not that old so that my professor was Riemann :) | 15:58 |
| markos | that was late 90s, my professor was P. Stavrinos, and he was/still is active in Finsler Spaces from what I see | 15:59 |
| markos | he's a mathematician not a physicist, but some of his colleagues were physicists and were interested in the cosmological application | 16:00 |
| markos | ie, what if the universe was anisotropic, what would the mathematical model be? (<- Finsler Space) What experiment would prove that, etc etc | 16:01 |
| Ryuno-KiAndrJaen | markos: My analytics prof was physicist. | 16:03 |
| Ryuno-KiAndrJaen | But to be frank, it's the first time I hear about Finsler Space. | 16:03 |
| Ryuno-KiAndrJaen | I left university like ten years ago but only discovered some parts of the math community on the Fediverse last year (mainly mathstodon). | 16:04 |
| Ryuno-KiAndrJaen | Before I had contact to teachers at best. | 16:04 |
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| markos | guys, I /might/ miss tonight's meeting, social reasons, I will join if I return in time | 19:04 |
| programmerjake | thx for sharing that link markos! interesting... | 19:28 |
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| sadoon[m] | Starting the process of rebuilding bootstrap debian for sffs by building without modifications first | 21:21 |
| lkcl | nice | 21:21 |
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